“Red County” Republicans vs. Greenhut

Nowadays we shouldn’t expect much from Republicans but amusement. At least they’re not running the central government, still ruining everything, having left that task to Democrats.

A post on the Red County blog doesn’t disappoint. It’s by Chip Hanlon, a local GOP activist. “Red County” gets its name because in the 2004 election Orange County had the biggest margin of victory for the Republican candidate for president, although it didn’t in 2008.

Chip critiques a column over the Independence Day weekend by Steven Greenhut, my former O.C. Register colleague, “Declarations on Independence,” about how America isn’t exactly the land of the free the Founders fought and died for way back in 1776. Greenhut’s subhead: “Try to relax and enjoy the holiday devoted to America’s revolt against oppression, at least as much as the government lets you enjoy it.”

Greenhut’s responses are here and here.

Hanlon writes:

Here, Greenhut shows how, like many Libertarians, he has become a prisoner of his own supposed philosophy.

Why “supposed philosophy”? Anyone who has read Greenhut’s articles over the years knows that, agree or disagree with it, he has an actual philosophy that’s well thought out.

Military supremacy

Hanlon writes:

However, one passage in particular gives a valuable glimpse into the mind of the extreme Libertarian:

Fourth, try attending one of the many military displays, where you can honor those agencies that have protected your freedoms by invading countries that you previously had never heard of. While you’re at it, try appreciating every one of the $500 billion-plus spent by the Pentagon this year, along with the additional billions spent by the nation’s intelligence officials to protect your freedoms in ways so important that they must be kept secret from you.

One of the few functions of government someone like Greenhut would acknowledge as appropriate is its duty to protect its citizens– via both the military for national defense and via a law enforcement/court system. Apparently, though, according to Steve those intelligence agencies and their “secrecy” have no place in a national defense scheme. And you can just hear the disdain he holds for those in our military in the very first line in that paragraph.

It’s funny, but I attended military parades in the 1960s and 1970s  that weren’t nearly as martial as those today, even though veterans marched from World War I, World War II, the Korean War, and the Vietnam War, which combined had 100 times as many war dead as have the Iraq and Afghan Wars. They were just parades honoring our friends and relatives who had served, and in some cases died, not displays of war whooping like modern parades.

A free Republic, which America is supposed to be, is modest about its military. Only empires act as if the military were the paramount element in society.

Hanlon:

One of the few functions of government someone like Greenhut would acknowledge as appropriate is its duty to protect its citizens — via both the military for national defense and via a law enforcement/court system.

“Protect,” yes — but we’re way beyond that into total government domination of our lives.

“PATRIOT Act” Tyranny

Hanlon writes:

Is it legitimate to question laws like the Patriot Act or the size and scope of our military spending and engagements? Undoubtedly, but Libertarians don’t stop on any reasonable ground in these areas.

Actually, any real American patriot is outraged by the misnamed “USA PATRIOT” Act, which should be called the USSR Traitors’ Act. As 9/11 was America’s Reichstag Fire, so the “PATRIOT” Act is America’s Enabling Act, in each case — 1933 or 2001 — giving a central tyranny the authority to destroy our liberties on the excuse of “protecting” us.

Hanlon is a smart fellow. But he needs to wake up to what’s really happening. He, like so many Republicans, didn’t heed the warning of the late Paul Weyrich, who said, “Never give your friend a weapon your enemy, once he’s back in power, could use against you.”

How does it feel now, Chip, that Homeland Security Gauleiter Janet Napolitano has a conservative enemies list?

As the song asks, “What ya gonna do when they come for you?”

Intrusions and “conspiracies”

Hanlon writes:

And it’s why a guy like Steve will take inane examples of government “intrusions” and turn them into full-blown conspiracies.

It’s not a conspiracy, but a law! It’s the FISA Amendments Act of 2008. According to the Wikipedia article the law, among other things:

  • Permits the government not to keep records of searches, and destroy existing records (it requires them to keep the records for a period of 10 years).
  • Protects telecommunications companies from lawsuits for “‘past or future cooperation’ with federal law enforcement authorities and will assist the intelligence community in determining the plans of terrorists.”
  • Removes requirements for detailed descriptions of the nature of information or property targeted by the surveillance.
  • Increased the time allowed for warrantless surveillance to continue from 48 hours to 7 days.

Then there’s the REAL ID Act, a national ID card, that Republicans have tried to foist on us, and Obama now is reviving.

Your paperz pleasze?

If it looks like the KGB and quacks like the KGB, it is the KGB.

Police riots

Hanlon brings up Greenhut’s reference to “a rare instance of excessive police force.” Actually, these instances are getting not only common, but routine, as detalied on William Norman Grigg’s blog.

And let’s not forget an example right here Red County, involving one of the top Republicans.  Corrupt Orange County Republican Sheriff Mike Carona, now a felon in prison, allowed conditions in his jail so bad that an inmate was killed. Greenhut wrote in May:

the Carona jail system gained the reputation as something of a torture chamber. The beating death of inmate John Chamberlain (deputies regularly watched TV, slept and played videogames) was the epitome of the Carona management system. A grand jury report revealed various departmental cover-ups of that brutal event, as deputies perjured themselves, tampered with witnesses (see a pattern here?) and abused the inmates under their care.

No “conspiracy” there. Just the facts, ma’am, as Sgt. Joe Friday used to say.

And Carona’s replacement as sheriff, appointed by the GOP-dominated board of supervisors, is an anti-gun fanatic.

An Empire, Not a Republic

Hanlon:

In their bizarre [libertarian] ideology, it is better to passively watch all the events of the world and take literally no hand in shaping it to meet our American interests nor the those of individual liberty around the globe. Some belief system.

Actually, America’s Founders favored an America First foreign policy, and opposed foreign adventurism. President Washington laid it out for us in his Farewell Address of 1786:

The great rule of conduct for us in regard to foreign nations is in extending our commercial relations, to have with them as little political connection as possible….The great rule of conduct for us in regard to foreign nations is in extending our commercial relations, to have with them as little political connection as possible.

Moreover, the Constitution, whose drafting Washington presided over, included nothing about taking a hand in shaping the world “to meet our American interests” and those “of individual liberty around the globe.”

We were to shape the world only by our example as a free country, something we no longer do because we’re no longer free.

For one thing, we’re learning what the Founders knew from their study of the Athenian Empire and the Roman Empire: that global engagement means the end of a free republic and the imposition of a tyrannical empire.

For another, the Constitution grants the power to declare war only to the U.S. Congress, yet our last declared war was World War II. All the rest of the wars since then, including the Iraq and Afghan and Pakistan wars, have been unconstitutional. The presidents who began them should have been impeached and removed from office.
Fiscal Follies
Hanlon:

Sadly, because the GOP failed so miserably on fiscal responsibility while in the majority, many on the right are being enticed by the little they know about Libertarians — their commitment to fiscal restraint.

And why did they “fail so miserably on fiscal responsibility”? It was mainly because of the unconstitutional  wars. The Iraq War alone is going to cost us up to $5 trillion. That’s $5,000,000,000,000.00.
Not only that, but to run a war, you need to bribe domestic constituencies with porkbarrel spending — guns and butter, just like LBJ, another spendthrift warmonger Texan, did in the 1960s. As former Reagan Treasury official Paul Craig Roberts wrote:

President Lyndon B. Johnson’s policy of Great Society spending and Vietnam War is credited with the rising American inflation that persisted until checked by President Reagan’s supply-side policy.

In Johnson’s time the American economy and the US dollar were strong, and there was no current account deficit. Yet, LBJ’s policy of guns and butter did long-term harm.

The Bush/Obama 21st century policy of guns and butter makes LBJ look like a piker. The 2009 and 2010 federal budget deficits will be monstrous even without guns.  But Obama is exiting (apparently) the Iraq War in order to start two, possibly three, more wars.

Inflation, debt, depression

And it was Republican President Bush and Republican Fed Chairman Greenspan who, after 9/11, panicked and inflated the dollar, thus tripling the gold price, even as they lowered interest rates — the combined effect being the real estate bubble that crashed later in the decade.

Another way Bush panicked after 9/11 was that, instead of going just after bin Laden and the other terrorists who perpetrated the 9/11 attack, he tried to turn both Afghanistan and Iraq into model “democracies” — an impossible task given the tribal nature of both societies. The result was the endless quagmires in which we’re now stuck, and all the woes of empire for America.

Wild spending on war, wild domestic spending, inflation, artificially low interest rates, record deficits, record debt — no wonder in September 2008 the economy careened into the Bush Depression. Republicans — including the GOP Congress in power until 2006 — bear most of the blame, although Democrats bear much of the blame, too. For one thing, both the Democratic Congress of 2006 and Obama in 2008 were elected to end the Iraq War, yet they have not done so. Obama is making everything worse, not better.

But let’s never cease blaming Republicans as the primary culprits in our economic misery. They should have known better.

Reagan, after all, whatever his faults, presided over the correct formula: no foreign quagmires (he pulled out of Lebanon after the Marines were blown up in 1983), a stable currency, sensible interest rates, and tax cuts that lasted (instead of Bush’s, which expire next year).

Jumped the shark?

Finally, and maybe most hilariously, Hanlon jumbles the “jump the shark” analogy. He writes:

Just like when Fonzie jumped the shark, marking the moment when Happy Days lost its relevance as a show, Steven Greenhut just had one of those moments, giving all of us a glimpse into the extremist he seems to have become due to his frustration with the Republican party.

Actually, “jump the shark” doesn’t mean when something “lost its relevance,” but as Wikipedia explains, has “passed [its] peak.” And in fact, “Happy Days” lasted another seven of its 11 seasons, or about 2/3 of the show’s run, after it “jumped the shark.”

So, given that Steven has been at the Register since 1998, he’ll be there another 22 years, by this analogy. Although I should add that he hasn’t “passed his peak” but has just begun it.

It’s also ironic that Hanlon brands Greenhut an “extremist,” given that’s usually the label leftists use against sensible conservatives and libertarians — which, of course, is what Steven really is.

Update, July 14, 2009, 8:35 p.m. PST. Steven Greenhut has another reply to the Red County Republicans:

The good Republican folks at Red County have published a post accusing libertarians of being extremists and suggesting that we hate America, believe Lincoln to have been one of the world’s biggest war criminals and other such nonsense based on the unidentified statements. Yet one prominent writer at the blog, and someone who has zealously joined in the “libertarians are extremists” commenting has long ties to Christian Reconstructionism, a form of fundamentalist Christianity that seeks to impose Old Testament law on society. Would it be fair, then, to suggest that Red County is in league with those views, which I believe are somewhat outside the mainstream?

Click here for more…

27 Responses to ““Red County” Republicans vs. Greenhut”

  1. Don Scott Says:

    For you to write a gigantic post like this, you need to get a job and do something productive for society. Criticizing someone who is criticizing someone for 1500 words is for a loser.

  2. ejaye Says:

    Don – it’s clear Seiler got under your skin, probably because he presents a great rebuttal to Hanlon’s.

    You are a jackass. Take your replies to Red County and swarm in the neocon mess all republicans have become to enjoy.

    Seiler – nice piece.

  3. John Says:

    Thank you, ejaye.

    And as to Don Scott: For one thing, he didn’t leave his real email, so I don’t know who he is, but put up his post anyway. As to his calling me a “loser”: I was defending my friend, Steven Greenhut, against an unfair critique. How’s that being a loser?

    And it only took me 90 minutes to write more than 1,500 words of analysis, and have fun doing it. Maybe eight or even ten guys in the world could have written that.

  4. Neocons Lose It Over Ron Paul « LewRockwell.com Blog Says:

    […] old colleague John Seiler wrote a wonderful rebuttal. Anyway,  I  thought  I’d offer you more examples about how the neocons view Paul as their […]

  5. JDP Says:

    You wrote: “A free Republic, which America is supposed to be, is modest about its military. Only empires act as if the military were the paramount element in society.”

    Beautiful! Thanks for such a clear and concise statement!

  6. Adam Says:

    Yes, Don Scott, the free and open exchange of ideas about philosophy and the issues affecting our liberty is surely something only unproductive losers engage in.

    Are you serious?

  7. Tim Gandee Says:

    Why do neo-conservatives and liberals hate to deal with facts? All I ever see for rebuttals is name-calling and the argument of “Nu-uh!!!!”

    John, your piece was well written and chalked full of actual facts related to the history of our Republic and the law of the land, the constitution. The unfortunate fact is that those who live in this false political world of the left/right paradigm will continue to argue without supporting it with facts. What a shame. The longer politicians can get those who are asleep to argue over red and blue, the longer they will be able to continue in the fleecing of us all with lies, constitutional usurpations, and taking away our God given rights outlined in the Bill of Rights.

    Thankfully the thoughts being expressed by these Red-Dog Conservatives is diminishing with the shrinking of the Republican Party. I just hope Obama does to the liberals what Bush did to the conservatives and that is to wake them up over the fact that donkeys and elephants are really the same.

  8. Jason Says:

    Nice post.

    The problem with most republicans is that they do not understand their own political philosopy, let alone others. Take the issue of public schools for example. Most republicans believe that it is acceptable. However, they do not realize that to do so, government has to force person A to fund the schooling of person B via taxation. In other words, government violates the liberty of person A, rather than protecting it. The theory is actually more Marxist than anything and, indeed, we see it as plank number 10, as espoused in the Communist Manifesto, of the socialist transition from capitalism to communism. And, once you accept the validity of that to effectuate public schools, the same philosophy can be used for health care, social security, etc.

    Or take Mr. Hanlon’s specific example that suggests that it is okay to use the force of government to prevent a consenting male from “marrying” two consenting females (i.e., polygomy). The same philosophy would make it okay to use the force of government to prevent any consentual behaviour like: (a) entering into contract with a plumber; (b) entering into a contract to buy the health care of our choice; (c) gambling; (d) eating a hamburger; (e) divorce; (f) monogomy etc. You replace freedom of choice with what you believe is acceptable, and use government as the means of making it so.

  9. Big M Says:

    Well, at least Seiler realizes that 9/11 was an inside job. Anybody who could still believe the “official” conspiracy theory after almost 8 years is so stupid that they probably think that patio furniture is an Irishman.

    If Americans ever want to be truly free again, they need to realize that the Constitution is not legally binding on anybody, which means that the federal government has no legitimacy, or legal authority over anybody outside of DC. For anybody who doubts this, read No Treason: The Constitution of No Authority by Lysander Spooner, written in 1869.

    Unless a person believes in magic, slapping the word “constitution” on four pieces of paper that nobody ever bothered to sign doesn’t legally bind anybody 220 years down the line. Some people, including Ron Paul, idiotically call it a “contract,” but that’s nonsense. Try taking a contract into a court of law and enforcing it against somebody who never signed it, and see how far you get. I mean, try taking somebody into court and charging them with violating the Constitution. The same judges who claim to derive all of their authority from that document will have you and your “case” tossed into the street.

  10. John M Says:

    You’re a loser because you waste your time fighting for liberty. You’re supposed to pay no attention to the man behind the current, duh.

  11. James Says:

    Great rebutal Mr. Seiler. Those GOP sheople are still sticking their heads in their after, they will never learn unless people like you keep hammering knowledge into their heads while debuking the propaganda they have been fed up for years.
    “They first ignore you, then they attack you, then you win”

    Dr. Paul for president 2012

  12. Rob P. Says:

    John,

    Great rebuttal post. Agreed 100%. Hanlon is clutching for straws with his portrayal of Steve. In their struggle to redefine themselves, and become more palatable, I find that the underling (rank and file) Neocons take to bashing anyone whose libertarian or classic liberal viewpoint, echoing the true intent and vision of the founders, dare cross in to the territory of foreign affairs or militarism.

    Sad truth, most of them have no clue of the relevance and complicity of the military industrial complex (as warned by Ike), the Federal Reserve system, and their friends (partners in arms if you will) at the CFR. They can not comprehend the influence and control they have over our economy, our foreign policy, the empire building, and the dissolution of U.S. sovereignty. Conspiracy?! How about a history lesson or two for Chip? But I digress. Great job.

    For Liberty,
    Rob

  13. Rob Says:

    Fabulous! Peeling the lovely facade from Leviathan…

  14. Jason Says:

    If Don Scott read this, it probably took him over three hours. That’s why he’s so mad. Neocons…

    Great blog!

  15. Larry Ruane Says:

    Someone needs to tell red-state conservatives that (just to take one instance in which such people are terribly wrong these days) torture is NOT limited government! Quite the opposite!! Excellent post, Mr. Seiler.

  16. Pong God Says:

    Big M FTW (for the Lysander Spooner reference)!

    Oh, and it was indeed a fine rebuttal, Mr. Seiler!

  17. David Leeman Says:

    John,
    Read both Steven’s and Chip Hanlon’s (along with a good number of comments at RedCounty) before yours. Good job. Hanlon is a perfect example of why the Repubs are becoming more and more irrelevant. Meanwhile Ron Paul is catching fire with his audit the Fed bill. With people like you to help carry the banner, liberty may actually have a chance. I’m subscribing to your blog right after posting this.

  18. Irony Says:

    To Don Scott:

    For you to write a comment like that, you need to get a job and do something productive for society. Criticizing someone who is criticizing someone who is criticizing someone for 34 words is for a loser.

  19. Stephen Says:

    Mr. Hanlon and all at Red Country are “free” to join the United States’ all voluntary armed services to fight for our freedom.

  20. Paleo Pat Says:

    Isn’t Neo-Con just another word for Jew hater?

    -Pat

  21. chris Says:

    The core problem is intervention. Both sides want it both ways.

    It’s all or nothing, militia or empire.

  22. David Rairigh Says:

    Great article.
    I don’t think I’ll criticize someone who is criticizing someone who was criticizing some other person for criticizing….oh, nevermind.

  23. Andy Favor Says:

    Great post John. Keep up the great work!

  24. Akston Says:

    Neo conservatives and liberals tend to embrace a very similar core philosophy. Their ends are different, but their means are the same.

    Members of both groups would agree that American government exists not simply to protect unalienable rights of Americans. American government exists to enforce my third party view of how other humans should interact. Whether it’s: liberals asking government to trump domestic free markets, or neo-conservatives asking government to trump the structure of foreign states, both groups see the government as their own personal enforcer.

  25. Chris Bieber Says:

    Great and typical rapier wit and logic from my/our good friend John(and Steve at OCR).
    Typical elite emotive shilling and ad hominums from wannabe Mr. Chip.
    Maybe in his spare time from his website he could try and read…. some history like Clarence Carson or Rose Martin….or some philosophy like Lysander Spooner or some speeches from Patrick Henry.

    But maybe not.

    His watercarrying for the Inner Party/MiniTru must take precedence over logic/reason/history….

    Maybe he will get noticed by an IParty member with his yelling for war and empire and booing Ron Paul er Emmanuel Goldstein.

  26. Ken Says:

    John, I enjoyed your rebuttal to Hanlon. It takes a few more words to correct an error than it does to make one.

  27. Rick Fisk Says:

    Why do people wonder about neoconservative aversion to facts? For one, the gatekeepers and pseudo-intellectuals such as Kristol and Podhoretz are Trotskyites. They have been trained to push an agenda at the expense of facts. Facts are merely things to be ignored and discounted when the agenda might be in jeopardy.

    Their followers, in government and in the “trenches” are mostly former-liberals – meaning of course that they are currently liberals. One of the most famous “former” liberals is Horowitz.

    What’s absurd are those so-called republicans who believed that radicals such as Horowitz changed their political beliefs. They were so pleased to hear that a liberal was “converted” to their way of thinking it never occurred to them that it was they who were changing their opinions not the “converted liberal.”

    But really now. Consider that Michelle Malkin, a so-called conservative, actually tried to justify internment camps. But she’s also tried to justify all sorts of leftist nonsense her entire career, including the Patriot Act, the epitome of authoritarianism of the sort the Soviets enacted. You know, that totalitarian hell-hole that neocons think was brought down not by central economic planning, but because Reagan said “tear down this wall.”

    By the way, I was just noticing that the Ayn Rand institute has become a den of neocon statists who claim they are anti-state. The neocons have been busy trying to undermine any organization that even remotely objects to statism and with great success. They’ve ruined the GOP, pretty much salted the LP with the same sorts of “intellectuals” who argue that libertarianism means perpetual and “total” war, and it looks like they’ve assumed control over the Randroids too.

    The question really is, where do we go? The neoconservatives have done such a good job, we don’t want to go to the GOP. It still run by neoconservatives who deride the only true conservative in Congress.

    The LP has become a complete joke where pro-war libertarians are actually taken seriously.

    I’ll personally hang in there with the GOP but only to tar and feather anyone resembling a neocon while working to put Ron Paul Republicans in their place.

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